Where have all the good games gone?

PC Mac

(103)

By Joel Brodie
Jun 1, 2010, 9:51am

Over the past couple of months, it has become painfully clear to me and many of you at Gamezebo that the quality and quantity of download games is dropping. There are less download games being released each week, and of those that are released, many are just not good.

The state of download games is in dire shape. And, unless changes do not happen soon, things will only get worse.

Before I talk about what’s going wrong, let me tell you what is going right in download games.

The answer is, you, the game player.

There are more people playing download casual games than ever before, which is quite a feat during a worldwide recession. The growth in demand for download games is driven by lower prices, improved broadband speeds, and the fact that the primary audience that loves to play download casual games, Baby Boomers, is the largest demographic in the US right now.

So what’s the problem? While demand is growing (albeit slowly), the supply side is out of whack, moving the market out of equilibrium. Here’s the problem:

The price of download games has dropped in the past year from an average of $20 to $7 per game. That’s a 65% drop in price, meaning developers need to sell 2.5 more per game to make as much as before. The demand for casual download games is growing, but at a much slower rate to offset the drop in price (my guess is 10 – 15% yearly growth).
There are less channels for games developers to sell their casual games, both offline and online. Retailers, like Walmart or Target, noticed the price drop online and either dropped their prices or stopped selling casual games altogether. There has been consolidation online. For example, PlayFirst has partnered with Big Fish Games to sell games and Reflexive is closing their Arcade product. Whereas there used to be hundreds of web sites retail for developers to sell their games, now there are only a few.
While the price per game has dropped, the amount developers earned per game has either stayed the same or in some cases, decreased as margins get squeezed.

It does not take an economics degree to understand the numbers simply do not add up. If developers are making 2/3 less per game and the amount of games sold is not offsetting that drop, the only way for game developers to earn their return on investment is to spend less time and money producing each game.

Whereas a game developer would have been willing to invest $300,000 and 6 months to develop a game in the past, now they can only afford to spend $100,00 and 3 months just to break even. The result is more derivative content (especially among hidden object games), less game play, and poorly tested games with bad English grammar (I had to throw that last one in there).

Moreover, many highly talented game developers are leaving the download space altogether to focus on iPhone and Facebook games. With iPhone, the cost of development is much lower and Apple only takes 30% of the sale. With Facebook, a decent trafficked game can make up to $50,000 – $100,000 per month. Game developers are not moving to the “hot” iPhone and Facebook businesses to make a quick buck; they are leaving Downloads to stay in business.

And that’s a shame, really, because download games are more popular now than ever before. Gamezebo started as an editorial web site devoted to casual download games and even though we have expanded to cover casual games across all platforms, download games remain our top passion. No one wants the download games market to survive and thrive as much as we do.

In a way, the recent drop in quality has given us here at Gamezebo an even greater purpose in our coverage of download games. We understand that game players do not have money to throw away on bad games, and we strive to give our non-biased reviews on games and provide the online tools for our users to share your opinions on whether a game is worth buying or not.

However, we’d prefer to review more good games and give out 5 stars than to rate games with 2 stars or less for being buggy, derivative, too short, or just sucking. And lately, the 2 stars or less have been flying in our Downloads channel.

Fortunately, not all is dire in the world of download games. Companies are starting to re-introduce the concept of higher tiered pricing with Collections and Premium edition games. There are game developers that continue to develop high quality download games (especially those with strong franchises). New distribution channels and premium services are popping up to offer developers new ways to make money. And, with less competition, this is the perfect opportunity for game developers to jump back into the Downloads business, assuming they can make the math work.

Still, the fundamentals behind the download games market are flawed and we can no longer stay silent. The first step in solving a problem is to admit that a problem exists and for some reason, the entire casual game downloads industry is too scared to speak the truth.

The games need to get better or game players will stop playing. Game developers need to make enough money in order to invest the time and money to create better games as we’ve enjoyed in the past. And yes, game players need to be willing to pay more than $7 to play higher quality games.

I’m not saying it’s possible to get the average price back to $20 per game. There are too many cheap and free games online, on Facebook and the iPhone (that’s a reason why we are covering them more). But, $7 does not work. A desk for $1,000 made by craftsmen is higher in quality than a $200 desk you buy at Walmart made of particle wood. It’s the same with download games.

If the status quo does not change, we’re going to enter a vicious cycle, where lower quality games lead to less game sales, which leads to less developers creating download games, which lead to even less sales, and so on.

And once the big fans of download games get fed up, bored, and stop playing --- well, then that is when it truly is game over.

Comments (103)

cyrus_zuo
Jun 1, 2010, 10:36am

I agree with most everything you said, and want to add another point: The market is a big issue as well.

It has become harder and harder to make games for the downloadable portals as most games that aren't a Hidden Object game don't succeed. I think that the popularity of Hidden Object games, and their owning of the Top 10 lists has driven away players who don't enjoy them. After all, why would someone who likes Action, Strategy, or even Puzzle games continue to visit a downloadable games website where 9 out of 10 slots in the top 10 are Hidden Object games? The answer is many wouldn't, they'd go somewhere else to find what they are looking for...and they have!

The end result is that the downloadable portals have come to represent a more niche market than they used to. It's a market that is worth making games for, but it only if you are making certain types of games.

In making a game for the iPhone, iPad, DS, or Wii, we access a more diverse customer group, and that provides opportunities for making a wider variety of games. With variety comes better games as we have more ability to imagine and innovate :).

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oddfish
Jun 1, 2010, 10:47am

Fascinating stuff. I have been wondering about whether it is really sustainable to have a one-price model but, like a lot of people, I'm balking at the Collectors' Edition system. Has anyone considered a middle way in which the developers of a really good product market it as a quality game at, say, $10 and then keep it at that price? I think a lot of people would stump up a bit extra for a quality game but feel resentful about CEs because they percieve themselves as paying a lot for a few insignificant extras. An analogy would be with books. There is a market for hardbacks because people will buy one if it is by a favourite author or has a very interesting subject or is going to get a lot of use e.g a reference or cookery book. The rest of the time we wait for the paperback and again there's a divide between high priced paperbacks which involve a lot of research or illustrations and the standard price model. Well I'm sure that better market brains than mine have thought of this so I won't ramble on. I'd jjust like to say that I am not so much concerned about falling quality as I am amazed at the excellent quality which is still coming onto the market among the dross.

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dragonseye
Jun 1, 2010, 11:12am

Great observation and analysis, Joel ! My studio will do "Trilogy of Tearstone"(iHOGgames) in next two and half years and we will "fight" for Gamezebo`s 5 star !!! :D :D :D

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Lizenwolf
Jun 1, 2010, 11:14am

Those of us who prefer HOGs usually aren't the ones who also play games on their phones, or other tiny devices. Most of us also are not contributing to Facebook, and other similar venues. But we are willing to pay for what we want. Granted, there are those who refuse to pay the higher price for CEs, most probably because of limited funds. 20 bucks a game adds up really quick. Some of us can afford it and will buy all the ones we really want. Those who can't, wait for the lower priced editions. I think it was BigFish who started the lowest price site, and in promising a game a day at that lower price, perhaps made a huge mistake...at least from the developer's point of view. Of course, the customers love it, and BF remains the most popular site. It is a fact that HOGS are more popular than action, strategy, and puzzle games, at least on BF, and that is the second reason that it remains my favorite. The first is excellent customer service. I honestly don't know how much money is being made on these games, but I do know that the really good ones are not just thrown together, and they do take time to create. I can go through two mediocre hogs in one day, and I am not alone. A good one can take several hours, and those are not offered every day. I do think there is room for everyone, and if BF does appear to be catering to the HOG crowd, it is fine with me. There are other sites that have fewer hogs, and are much more apt to appeal to those who have nimble fingers, quick reflexes, and short attention spans. I prefer my flashes to be thunder and lightning, and relaxing with a mystery. Don't count us older folks out yet. We also have disposable income, and time to play.

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carfixer1957
Jun 1, 2010, 11:21am

One of the major issues that seems hush hush is piracy. It's impossible to go after the people who download or post cracked games, but a "wonderful suggestion" to all of the developers is to simply create an identity an upload a game with a virus that will damage or destroy the hard drive. That would eliminate a lot of people:) *Why do you think companies such as Reflexive and Playfirst are no longer selling games on their sites? Partially because of piracy, and this is FACT. If I went to Gamestop and tried to shoplift a game for $19.95, My career would be over. Yet there seems to be a double standard, does there not? On a completely random sidenote...While casual games are suffering, I hope Gamezebo is thriving, and it appears to be. I especially love the new iPhone coverage, as they are the a huge part of the future in the casual games industry.

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cardinella
Jun 1, 2010, 11:33am

Great article. I was wondering why HOG games were really bad lately. I think Lizenwolf made good points. I don't want to play games on my phone or Facebook either. I also don't buy collector's editions for the already mentioned reasons. I guess raising the price to $10 is the way to go, and as carfixer said piracy is an issue that needs to be addressed if possible. Again, thanks for the article and all the thoughtful comments.

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carfixer1957
Jun 1, 2010, 11:33am

On a completely random sidenote...While casual games are suffering, I hope Gamezebo is thriving, and it appears to be. I especially love the new iPhone coverage, as they are the a huge part of the future in the casual games industry.

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joel
Jun 1, 2010, 11:35am

Piracy is definitely an issue I did not mention in this article. What's interesting is that I showed this editorial to 2 - 3 developers to get their thoughts before posting, and each brought up piracy. When you do a search for a game now in Google, you'll see pirate sites in the top 10 results. Instead of adding it here, I decided to research it more and make it the subject of another editorial in the future. Joel

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jaylee1204
Jun 1, 2010, 11:42am

I think BFG made a big mistake in dropping game prices down to $6.99 and I don't think Collector's Editions are a good remedy. The extras they offer are usually pretty insignificant. I'm willing to pay more for a great game, but my money's very tight and I do balk at paying $19.99 for a game when I know the same thing is going to be $6.99 in just a few weeks. If BFG isn't willing to up game prices again, maybe a tiered pricing structure would work - something like $6.99 (or one credit) for a regular game and $13.98 (or two credits) for a premium game.

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MyThreeSons
Jun 1, 2010, 11:58am

I'm a time management fan with a distaste for the occult, and, let me tell you, it's pretty frustrating out there! I've been a member of Big Fish since Diner Dash ONE and the pickings are slim indeed. Every morning I visit Big Fish and, almost every morning, navigate away with a sigh -- just another (often occult-themed) hidden object game for sale, probably with bad syntax! More importantly for the economics of it all, I leave WITHOUT buying anything. I'm a baby boomer with money to spend, and there's nothing on which to spend it! Since reading some recent Gamezebo forum posts on game development, I have reconciled myself to paying premium prices for well-crafted time management games. Currently, for example, I am very much enjoying the Elizabethan iteration of Build-a-Lot, which I purchased directly from the developer for $19.95. "The laborer is worthy of his hire," says the Bible, and I think that those who can should pay more than $6.99 for TM games with long gestation periods.

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germangirl
Jun 1, 2010, 12:17pm

Hello Joel, you wrote a really good statement. I wish there were more challenging games were you have to use your brain and not the fingers for simply clicking around. I would pay the price if it's worth because to develop something is expensive. But I miss the quality. This year for me there were only three games I bought after trying the demos. Many years ago I had the very first Nintendo station and I got "Maniac Mansion". I really miss this kind of game - just funny, crazy, very looooong and senseless :) Greetings from Germany (and please excuse any grammar mistakes) germangirl

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Mohican
Jun 1, 2010, 1:23pm

The CE versions of games are simply BFG coming to terms with their huge mistake, dropping the prices down to $6.99. This has not only hurt the developers, but also hurt the portals including BFG. What people need to understand is that at $6.99, the developers are only getting a fraction of that money. BFG or another portal takes a good chunk. So, how can they make the numbers work if they are only getting $1-$2 per game. In order to make money the developer would need to sell over 100k units of their game. This is not an easy task. If the developer does not spend $200k on a title it will not sell. If they do spend $200k on a title they will loose money. Now as a business, do I continue to make casual PC games or do I go do something else that will allow me to keep the lights on? The result of the price drop is exactly what your article states Joel: 1. Developers are spending a lot less on games to maybe break even, which kills quality. 2. Developers who refuse to reduce quality simply have stopped making casual PC games for the most part. In the end this not only hurts the companies in question here, but the customers most of all. They only get the HO game of the day and are never exposed to the myriad of other types of games that are great fun to play. I hope this turns around soon, but customers will need to either get used to lots of bad games or paying more money for good games.

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ginaferrari
Jun 1, 2010, 1:42pm

The Collectors and Premium editions must be a failure and I expect BF and others will realize this soon. The sad thing is that they are putting a lot of time and money into creating meaningless add-ons instead of putting that time and money toward insisting on improvements in their second- and third-tier games before releasing and inflicting them on us. And of course $6.99 is ridiculously low. Why not $9.99? Surely most BF members would stick with BF, especially if the price increase were coupled with the announcement that Collectors and Premium editions were being eliminated, or if special features could be purchased for an additional charge at the same time that the game was released, rather than making people wait several weeks. Once I’d purchased a game and saw that it was worth the extra money, I probably would spring for another $5 for the additional features, but I certainly wouldn't buy a regular-edition game and then later spend $19.99 to get the additional features. Why not introduce the game at the regular price ($9.99) and at the same time offer the additional features for $5 more? I would bet that the net result would be increased numbers of people spending that additional $5 for those extra features once they saw how good the game was. And that’s the whole thing: the games must be good enough to make us want to pay more for them. In conclusion, I would rather spend a little more every month in order to have a higher standard for the second- and third-tier games than to have special editions.

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emichan
Jun 1, 2010, 1:59pm

i agree that it would be more appealing to me to buy extras for a regular priced game than to have the collector's edition as its own separate thing that costs a LOT more. a lot of games outside the portal market have the "expansion pack" thing where you can add new levels or bonus features or stuff for $5 or so. in BFG terms it could cost an extra credit (or less if the standard game price went back up to $10). and for the developer side of things, if you got a credit for the game sale and another credit for the expansion, making that expansion is much easier than making a whole other game, so they should benefit.

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Mazou
Jun 1, 2010, 2:09pm

Thank you Joel for opening my eyes a little more with your article. Quality game designers need incentive to go on. They deserve it and we gamers must make sure they get it, even if it means paying a bit more. I'm a BF member for the games and for the superior customer service, yet I totally agree with jaylee1204. The pricing of CEs vs. regular games is flawed IMO as well. Somebody (Cakefordinner?) on the forums once called it the Have and the Have-Nots situation. I have never bought a CE because the extras and the much lower price a few weeks later also made no sense to me. But if it's killing the market... Should we feel guilty? Even on a limited 'playing' budget, I'd have no problem with paying a 'middle-ground' price for a regular game if it would ultimately help bring out better quality and variety (I'm also getting a little tired of all the HOGS out there). I'd be very happy if BF would revise its strategy. There has to be an effort on all parts to keep good designers creating the games we love to play.

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Julio Gorgé
Jun 1, 2010, 2:28pm

HO games are also arguably the easiest and cheapest type of downloadable game you can develop… so this combined with the outlook of less earnings per game makes for a deadly loop that has led us to the current situation. I agree with cyrus_zuo that the downloadable games market has slowly turned into a huge (but niche) market for downloadable hidden object games. Games outside that genre now have to be extremely good to succeed in portals.

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Picman050967
Jun 1, 2010, 2:36pm

Just to clarify a few points. Big Fish Games did not proactively lower the pricing of casual game downloads, we just matched what others were pricing games at to stay competitive. RealArcade was the first with a discounted game subscription price and their Gamehouse division even dropped as low as $5.99 at one point. Amazon.com(via Reflexive acquisition) was the first to discount single non-subscription pricing by launching their entire downloads catalog priced at $4.99, $6.99 and occasionally $9.99 at time when single games on Big Fish Games still cost $20. Big Fish Games later dropped non-subscription pricing to stay competitive with Amazon. That said, the potential customer base has exploded over the past 3 years and there are more high quality games than before, but customers' consumption patterns have changed. 5 years ago the primary genres that sold were repetitive game mechanics that one game could be played for an entire month. Those games often do not sell well today. What sells today are largely linear games, where a person can play through the game within a day and are then looking for the next game, so it may simply feel like there are fewer great games. Regarding genre selection, portals like Big Fish Games can only sell what developers make and the reality is that Hidden Object and puzzle adventure is what sells today, so that is what developers are producing. When we get a great game we sell it regardless of genre. If the developer wants to price higher and the games quality indicates it can support a higher price, we do so and in all genres not just hidden object. If you look at the quality of some of the games launched in the past year from Big Fish Games' studio (MCF: Dire Grove, Drawn, Life Quest) and from partners (Puppet show, Love Chronicles, Dark Parables, Diner Dash Boom, Ranch Rush 2, My Kingdom for Princess) these have budgets and quality levels that did not exist 3 years ago. So, while in some genres Joel is spot-on with this article (Sim, TM, match 3), this may be more due to similar alternatives on social networks or iPhone at a fraction of the price or often for free. Joel's thesis breaks down when you look at the industry-wide download market or focus in on the genres that are selling well today, not 3 years ago. While 3 years ago the average customer was buying a few games a year, today's avid customers are buying 20 to 30 games a year, so there is price elasticity (a lower price does increase sales volume). Big Fish Game and the successful developers we work with who are adapting to the new consumer tastes, are experiencing record levels of both sales units and revenue. We have grown our customer base and revenue very fast since founding and continue to do so today, and the revenue is a royalty share with the game developers and that royalty share is at the same rates it was 8 years ago when Big Fish was just a little fish! :) Like with Collector's Edition, we will continue to experiment with pricing structures for games that have higher budgets and are of higher quality, but not at the expense of customers' ability to buy the games they love to play. This is especially important now when you consider how this brutal recessions is hurting many consumers ability to put food on the table, much less pay higher prices for their games. Paul

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gogiigames
Jun 1, 2010, 2:37pm

Joel your points are valid but I have to disagree about good games. I think there are more and more great games that are forcing developers(like one mentioned above) to spend more making less per unit. I also do not think all Collectors editions are worth $20 but most are. The issues facing developers today is price but it’s also consumer knowledge. For 1) We started out giving our games away and IF they really like the game they would buy it, that is telling the customers there is a low perceived value from the start. Companies like Real made it easier to "forget" about what they were spending money on and jump on the spontaneous buy effect, then Bigfish made it a lot better customer experience with great CS and a smooth buying process which increased the number of games that the customers would buy a year. All great things for our small industry! The drop in price (in my opinion) was to go after the second generation of casual game buyers, the people that only had a small budget for games or were on the fence if they are worth the money, once they had them then they upsell and cross sell to get them to buy more. Which I believe worked. Now the issue is that the same buying model that exists in most things applies to Casual games, the top 10-20 games are taking 80% of the revenue. That is not great if you are not in that top 20 but like any aspect of human growth, the strong will survive and like movies, books and games the best games will get the best sales. In short I feel that the future is bright for consumers as there are a lot of great games coming BUT the margins for developers are shrinking and we need to be creative in design(budget) and marketing, and distribution(ipad, alternative channel) to get our margins back up.

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lackoo
Jun 1, 2010, 2:38pm

@Picman050967 BFG should lower the price of their older CE's .

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angelsam19
Jun 1, 2010, 2:53pm

I don't want to see downloadable games replaced by I-phone and I-pod, etc., games!!! I am a senior citizen who loves HOG and IHOG games and I can't afford to spend as much as some. (My main objection to some of the games that have come out lately is the almost constant occult content I see. I have had to pass on many otherwise great games because of that). I can't afford to spend the money on I-phones, I-pods, and I-Pads just to play games. Please, we have to find a way to keep our downloadable games at reasonable prices for those of us with fixed incomes!! I hope a resolution to this dilemma can be found, soon.

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angelsam19
Jun 1, 2010, 2:58pm

BIG KUDOS to you, picman/Paul for an excellent post!!!!

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Picman050967
Jun 1, 2010, 3:03pm

Oh yeah, sorry George (gogii) I forgot in my list of great games in the past year: Princess Isabella (a fav of mine), Mirror Mysteries, Trapped: The Abduction and Escape 2 Paradise! :) Paul

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60schild
Jun 1, 2010, 3:04pm

cyrus_zuo 4 hours, 16 minutes ago I agree with most everything you said, and want to add another point: The market is a big issue as well. It has become harder and harder to make games for the downloadable portals as most games that aren't a Hidden Object game don't succeed. I think that the popularity of Hidden Object games, and their owning of the Top 10 lists has driven away players who don't enjoy them. After all, why would someone who likes Action, Strategy, or even Puzzle games continue to visit a downloadable games website where 9 out of 10 slots in the top 10 are Hidden Object games? The answer is many wouldn't, they'd go somewhere else to find what they are looking for...and they have! The end result is that the downloadable portals have come to represent a more niche market than they used to. It's a market that is worth making games for, but it only if you are making certain types of games. In making a game for the iPhone, iPad, DS, or Wii, we access a more diverse customer group, and that provides opportunities for making a wider variety of games. With variety comes better games as we have more ability to imagine and innovate :). *************************************** By the same token, I DO like Adventure/HOG games and loathe Match-3 and time management games. These game sites aren't there just to please you and what you like (or me either, for that matter). Like you stated....people who don't like HOGs can go somewhere else to find what they're looking for.........there are plenty of sites that cater to your type games. I doubt the sites who mainly offer HOGs are worrying about driving people like you away.

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carfixer1957
Jun 1, 2010, 3:14pm

I am very happy with the quality of casual games, actually. My issue right now is not price, but lack of dash games and innovation. Farm Craft 2 will be out on Bigfush this week and Im excited for that. I like iHOGs as well as long as they aren't timed and conversely, time management games as long as they are timed.. I've been much happier with what Bigfish has had to offer over the past few months. I will purchase CEs if the game is truly worth it. Sally's 3 is part of my CE collection and the sequel to Flux will be as well when that's released. People who are complaining about the prices might not recall when there were no Gameclubs and every casual game was $19.95. $6.99 is a bargain and I am on a fixed income. I've moved away from the consoles except for Xbox Live Arcade, Wiiware, and the PSN. Casual and Iphone games are my thing, and I am glad to see that people who grew up in the 1980s are becoming a larger demographic and the trend will continue. People who love hogs don't need to worry- hogs aren't going anywhere:) Don Keizer

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carfixer1957
Jun 1, 2010, 3:20pm

Bigfish not Bigfush! Forgive me as I an home from work this week due to illness...

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Mohican
Jun 1, 2010, 3:22pm

Any market thrives when there is healthy competition and innovation in product. Unfortunately, this is not the case with casual download games. Plants vs Zombies is a very good example of innovation within download games, but sadly these are few and far between. Its disconcerting to hear some say, "Well I like to play only HOG's, so I don't really care about anyone else". Breadth of genre and game types only make this market stronger. Having many bad iterations of only one type of genre weakens it.

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klinder369
Jun 1, 2010, 3:22pm

I honestly can't see paying $20.00 for games Fishdom 2 (a match -3 game). On the other hand, Royal Envoy was an excellent investment for $20.00. So I would have to say it depends on the game. A time-management game like Royal Envoy or Build-A-Lot:The Elizabethan Era is probably worth the $20.00 bucks, but not a HOG or a Match-3. Defintely, not a Match-3.

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Purplerabbit
Jun 1, 2010, 3:41pm

This is a good article, but it's not just casual games at risk. My hubby's PC magazine is concerned for PC games as a whole as the new generation is prefering to play on their consoles. They had some good insight as how to bring PC gaming back to the forefront. I think the number 1 issue was that dratted DRM!

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cyrus_zuo
Jun 1, 2010, 3:47pm

@ 60schild
"I doubt the sites who mainly offer HOGs are worrying about driving people like you away."

That's an interesting statement.
I'm not sure you understood my meaning or where I come from. I'm a game developer. I work for Reflexive, who has made quite a number of games over the years, my released projects include Airport Mania & Simplz: Zoo.
Taken from that side, the sites who offer HOGs should be worrying about driving people like me away, b/c people like me represent the source of the content on those sites.

My statement wasn't about personal taste, it was in regards to the economic side and financial realities for developers in the current market.

There is a lot less revenue that can be made from selling games on the downloadable portals today than there used to be, that's a fact. Specific portals may be doing better or worse, but overall, in total, there is a lot less revenue. There is also less genres of games that can be successful on the portals. (success meaning they earn enough money to pay for their development)

As a game creator, it has become clear over the last 2 years that the same type of content that used to be successful on the casual portals can still be very successful on other portals such as Steam and on other platforms, like the iPhone, even if the exact same game doesn't perform well on the casual portals.

A game not doing well on the portals isn't necessarily a sign of the game not being a 'hit,' but instead, it points more to changes in the customer base of the casual portals that has made some types of content more successful elsewhere. Plants vs. Zombies is a great example of a game that was a moderate success on the portals, and a huge success on Steam and the iPhone, and even casual game poster-child Bejeweled 2, is enjoying more success away from the portals on Facebook and iPhone than it is getting on the portals.

Things are always changing, and being aware of the changes and reacting to them is how developers stay in business making great games. There are still great games on the portals, but certainly the variety, and based on many remarks here also the quantity, have been decreasing. That's not necessarily a reason to panic, the portals serve the HO audience very well, and I'm sure they'll continue to do so, but they may represent more of where the casual market has been than where it is going.

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Ms Nance
Jun 1, 2010, 4:41pm

Thank you for your insight. It gave me a lot to think about.

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Shidawa
Jun 1, 2010, 5:08pm

Must be nice to post about BFG on a different site.

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Cecilia
Jun 1, 2010, 5:20pm

I'm flabbergasted that picman, who lets no-one post another site on his site, has the nerve to come on here. He's got some nerve blathering on in this site, when he's got his cadre of people slapping anyone who dares to even ALLUDE to another game site. The rules are so restrictive there, it's a wonder anyone buys their games. It was at one time a fun place to be, but people are jumping ship like sailors confronted by the plague.

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xinnix
Jun 1, 2010, 5:31pm

l can´t agree with the statement, that many casual games have less quality than some time ago. Since l´ve started to purchase games from Bigfish, l noticed, the quality got better. l guess it´s a change of peoples mind or a change of time at all. ln example long time ago when the first HOGs were released, they were long-play games. Means even for a straight HOG a player needed many hours, if not a few days to finish a game. l noticed some complains, that those games were too long and became boring and many stopped to play or finish a game. There wasn´t much variety and also the time between the releases was too long. l think the developers answered to this in making more but shorter HOGs, still straight ones. When this became boring too, they started to add more variety with more challenging mini games and at last developed rarely straight HOGs, but "Adventure" HOGs. The games became a bit shorter( with many exceptions, btw) but more interesting. For many players this might be a lack and they are complaining about less quality. At least for me it´s a great thing. l have a choice now what fits to my liking and l can be sure that l won´t be sticked to a game till it gets boring. And if l can look for another one. For the pricing l would say it´s fair at least for the customer. Having a low income isn´t the best to purchase games for 10 or 20$ per game. lf l can afford a CE l just do it and l don´t take much care everytime, if the features are worth the price. Sometimes it´s only this "l can´t wait" - thing, so what.. And as Picman stated many people like me bought in the past perhaps one game per month for 10 or 20$, now with lower prices and the punch card system, many buy more than before, some at least 6 games per month. So the money some spend doubles itself. For a developer it maybe makes no difference, because the money will be divided to many different now, instead of a few like years ago. But so there´s also a chance for little companies/studios to develope better games, because a little success increases the challenge. Greetings from Germany ;)

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DamaDeLuz
Jun 1, 2010, 5:55pm

I've been a BFG member for years, back when the games were $15.99. I'm retired and casual games are my entertainment. The lower prices allow me to buy a minimum of one game a month, sometimes more. This month I bought 4. I understand that the developers need more in order to produce fine quality games. I also know that I cannot and will not pay $20 for a game. I very seldom take advantage of the Daily Special because I either already have the game or I don't want it. I do take advantage of the holiday discounts if there are games that I really want. Most often my decision about which game to buy every month is one of the highlights of the month! Sad? Not! Just a word on HOGs. I'm tired of them. I play HOGs, Match 3, Strategy, Time Management and Puzzle games, so I would like just a little more variety. I don't ever buy Large File games because on a couple of occasions I bought games without playing the trial and found I didn't like them . BFG rocks. They have the best Customer Service around. Gamezebo also rocks...I visit at least once a day!

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livemild
Jun 1, 2010, 6:37pm

thanks for for the thoughtful post. anyone who thinks that quality has improved- think Syberia. a very "old" game and no matter how many new adventure games i see i still use it as the standard. sure there are MCF and Puppet show, totem tribe, and a few others, but they are the exceptions. when BFG announced the price drop i didnt see how developers could stay in business and i still dont. Picman can bring up how others were dropping their prices but BFG was the big fish in the pond. when they dropped the price they also dropped a huge boulder in that game pond. someone once said that the movies never lived up to the promise the silent era showed. i fear that this is what is happening to casual games. syberia, the eleventh hour, civ, all created new worlds and a heck of a lot of entertainment. but what brought down the film industry-costs- is bringing down the game industry

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molly539
Jun 1, 2010, 6:53pm

I play all kinds of casual games but my favorite genres are match-3, mah jongg and HOGS. While I enjoy most HOGs I tend not to buy them too often. Not because of the cost but because they take up a lot of space in my computer (I have a six year old Dell). They've really got to have it all: great story, fantastic graphics and music, replayability, before I'll even think about buying them and giving up precious space on my hard drive to them. But most of all, they if they have mini-games, those games must be skippable. I have wasted too much money in the past on HOGs that had everything I liked except this. I hate getting stuck halfway through a game and being unable to complete it because I couldn't skip a mini-game that was tripping me up. I have a low tolerance for frustration I guess. Even though I am on a fixed income, I have no problem with spending more for the games. When I first started playing casual games, I was with Real Arcade. At that time, a game club credit cost almost $10.00 which I thought then and still think is reasonable. I've been with Big Fish for almost three years now. I like the $6.99 price I pay now but would have no objection to going up to $10.00. But I will not pay $20.00 or more for a game.

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shadowdiana
Jun 1, 2010, 7:41pm

I have to say that I somewhat share Joel's concern about quality...(especialy the English wording and syntax LOL) yet there are still many fine games available. Some, such as Plants vs. Zombies, are gems! it seems to be true that the majority of games released lately are HOG/IHOG, but if that is what is what the public is buying, that is what is offered, that is what is distributed. Common sense business practice; no conspiracy. I enjoy my IHOGs, but will always purchase a quality Time Management like the Build a Lot series (or a match 3, or P vs Z). Good grief, I Loved Picket fences! I am wondering why, however, it seems that the only Distributor being "called on the carpet" seems to be Big Fish. (And yes, as I am sure you know, I am a huge fan of Paul Thelan and his company). There are a few more, as you know, and deserve equal attention for release of what we are calling "lower quality" (and HOGs!). They release HOG/IHOG as well, .....even "Collector's" editions. Maybe they should be considered in this as well? Hmmm? I want to thank Gogii for their input...love your games! Bottom line, it is business. Games will go where they can survive, be it facebook, platform or PC. Games that sell will be the ones developed; distributors can only sell what they are given.

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danmar
Jun 1, 2010, 8:02pm

Good editorial and as you say about time. Part of the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. We're always looking for cheaper and cheaper goods. Chinese manufacturers have made it possible for us to buy 4-5 things for the same price we paid for 1 a few years back. And some people have never known anything other than inexpensive Chinese-made products so price is a big issue. (We've all seen the results of over-consumption which continues to this day - unfortunately the world economy is caught in a devilish, almost impossible to end, loop) This, of course, affects all consumer goods. Games developers also have to understand one basic thing: if they keep making bad games (and why would they even bother?) they will eventually go bust. But it's also time to reassess the price of games. The drop from about $20 to $7 (and even $3) was immediate and drastic and we've seen the results. So let's fix this by 1) paying a little more for the good stuff and 2) NOT buying bad games in the first place. Consumers have to become more discriminating in the quality of the products they are willing to pay for.

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danmar
Jun 1, 2010, 8:10pm

I don't understand the piracy issue. The games cost $7 and they all offer a free 1 hour of play. Is piracy that big a problem?

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Colleen Rogers
Jun 1, 2010, 8:12pm

I completely disagree. I am happy with the quality of casual games and definitely the price! I think Paul/picman had very valid points.

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emichan
Jun 1, 2010, 8:23pm

plants vs zombies IS great but it would have put the company out of business completely if they'd spent the money developing that and then only launched it on BFG. maybe BFG should make a separate site with no HOGs and promote it differently so that people who like other games aren't driven away but have their own place? then the two groups might try each other's stuff occasionally without feeling like it was a war between them... i've seen hog players get really mean on the forums of any non-hog game that comes out and vice versa because they feel like if one of the OTHER side's games is released it's pushing down one of THEIR games

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realitychek
Jun 1, 2010, 8:28pm

Hmmm...wonder who CR works for...LoL

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aislingyngaio
Jun 1, 2010, 8:41pm

One thing that's changed with the change in prices is also the customer's perception. When the originally $20 games dropped to $7, customers are of course extremely happy with the new price for old games made by developers with the $20 price tag in mind. But when the new games are released by developers who now have to adjust to the $7 price mentality, customers deride it as "short", "low quality" and "not worth the money" compared to its predecessors, especially if the new game belongs to a series with a strong fan following and simply cannot compare to its predecessors because of the reasons written by Joel. They are angry, disappointed, and yes, some even start boycotting the developers just because they are viewed as money-minded. Well, hello, they are businesses, and simply because they are also artists trying to create wonderful games for us doesn't mean they shouldn't think about the bottomline, and calculate precisely how they are going to pay their artists, musicians, and scripters. We must all remember that to lower the market price will inevitably force most developers to make a terrible choice: to sacrifice quality, quantity/length of game, or go hungry? After all, not all developers are also giant portals with relatively larger budgets like BFG/Reflexive/Playfirst/Amazon etc (no disrespect meant), but indie developers trying to scrape a living while doing something they love. We all get what we pay for, is all I'm saying. So the next time you are able to find a great game with the current (or, dare I speculate, lower?) price, remember the sacrifice to get you the price you are now paying for downloadable casual games: other game developers who had to be content with releasing a few lower quality games a year, who had gone off to find greener pastures in iPhone/Facebook games, or who had simply given up and went back to the classifieds for office jobs.

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cakefordinner
Jun 1, 2010, 9:14pm

@carfixer: Adding a virus, carfixer? Committing a crime is punishable by incarceration, or fines, NOT death or torture (capital murder, and Guantanamo/Al Graib (God forgive us for those atrocities), notwithstanding). We no longer have debtor's prisons or The Inquisition. Your solution is not only irresponsible (and legally actionable), it's impossible...unless one was stupid enough to disable their anti-virus and firewall. I don't advocate piracy, however I don't advocate extreme measures for lesser crimes. That would be like a police officer shooting a suspect in the head for stealing a loaf of bread. Besides, if it can be made, it can be unmade. I'm all for any anti-piracy software publishers feel they need to use..all, that is, except the nastier forms of DRM that completely invade one's personal space, regardless how honest one is. Back to the article: Do you want to know where I believe the lion's share of the blame lies? With "us," the consumers. "We" have such impatient, voracious, McDonald's appetites, that the publishers and developers are "dancing as fast as they can" to give "us" what we're screaming for: want it NOW, want LOTS of it and want it CHEAP. If I don't get it, NOW, I'm gonna scream from the mountain tops: I'm BORED!! WAAAAAA! Don't like it? Don't friggin' buy it. Want better games? Quit whining for 6 or 7 new games a day. Play one of those games you bought, that you only played once, 9 months ago. Thank God I like point-and-click Adventure games - they're HUGE and play for days, if not months. Believe me, the quality will improve if no one buys the garbage. I'd be happy to pay a few dollars more if that would enable publishers to make money AND allow a developer to make enough so they don't have to stop making games, or have to rush them out, unfinished. I DO blame publishers for putting out poorly localized games. If the developer hasn't thought of it, the publisher should ask for volunteers to do this task...or network with others to find people who are willing to do it. This is happening with some publishers who pick a few quality open-beta testers (the ones who really make an effort to provide content in their surveys, and not just: loved/hated it, loved/hated it, loved/hated it, ad nauseum) to participate in a closed beta of a full game, so it can be about as perfect a game as possible. Shame on any of you publishers who keep tossing out poorly localized games. And, while I'm at it, DO something about buggy games that people have paid you for. Quit tossing free coupons at us and not getting a fixed version out. It's insulting. Rant over.

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crazybluegirl
Jun 1, 2010, 9:24pm

Danmar said "I don't understand the piracy issue. The games cost $7 and they all offer a free 1 hour of play. Is piracy that big a problem? " People don't like to pay for music. I first heard of sites to download music for free back when itunes was .99 for all their songs. So it does not surprise me that people would pirate a $7 game.

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MaryMeerkat
Jun 1, 2010, 9:30pm

I think Joel is right. I've been playing casual games for a good long while now, and it seems that the price drop has affected quality. picman said that the royalty sharing rate with developers is the same as it was years ago - but since prices have dropped, that still means developers are getting less money per game. There is also something else that needs to be considered here. From what I understand, portals take a big cut of revenue (including the big ones), and these seem to go to 50% and beyond! That just strikes me as a pretty major cut, considering the developers are getting less money per game than their publishers are. So if you combine the current price point of $6.99 and the <50% profit for games sold, it seems like the developers get the shaft. I don't want to see the Casual Game market wither and die, and I don't feel right about forcing developers to resort to sweatshop type tactics to produce games. I would happily pay $9.99 for games.

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jambo48
Jun 1, 2010, 9:58pm

Do people generally read the Credits at the end of a game? I do, and have noticed that most games released lately come from eastern european countries. Even the big games developed by "BFG" and other large companies... look at the credits, the artists or others aren't actually employers of the company but outsourced. Does anyone know of a recent game that was 100% made in the US or other western country? Not really... they can't afford to, costs are too high for the small return they get with 6.99 games. I am also willing to pay 9.99 and think that's a very good suggestion.

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MaryMeerkat
Jun 1, 2010, 10:09pm

Actually I know one! Tiger Eye: Curse of the Riddle Box. They're in Seattle. I attended their online dev chat a few weeks back and they spilled the beans.

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amaranth
Jun 1, 2010, 10:09pm

HOGs cheap to produce? Eeks! I'm just finishing one up and it is by far the most expensive game I've ever made. My time management games were about 1/3 of the cost. What I'm most excited about is what's next after Adventure/HOG? Peace and cheese everyone!

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PaulG
Jun 1, 2010, 10:27pm

I think I have to disagree with the majority of what you said. When games were $19.99 or higher, fewer were sold, but the profit margin on that particular game was higher. With $7 a game, the volume of games sold in general has shot through the roof, but it is being spread around among many now. As for quality of games, there were many stinkers before, it is just that you were taken for a $19.99 ride, now, it is a $7 ride. The whole business plan, or lack thereof, is in flux in the last year or so. Some of these so called premium games simply are not worth the money unless they are from an established series or truly do give something worthwhile extra like levels. The ones that give a guide/walkthrough, something that is available anywhere for free, or artwork are just a rip-off to make people think they are getting more. In reality, they are getting very little for 3x price tag. I think, partially due to the economic climate, that the casual game industry is at the start of yet another makeover. Just what it will be I don't think we know yet. I do know they will never get it back to 19.99, that door is closed for good. I will give up buying games if that were to become the norm again or go back to my 1 a month if that. Like the music industry with the endless dribbling, sales dropped dramatically. Now, they are trying to pressure sellers to get away from the .99 cent for a single track. E-Books ...the 6 large publishers strong armed (with some help from Apple) to break Amazon's $9.99 and set the point at 14.99 or higher; a price much higher than a paperback which costs more to produce (you can read the idiocy from one publisher who tried to state digital was more expensive than paperback, but anyone involved in IT knew that was all just air). I think the same is coming for games at some point, and, as a consumer, I will use my wallet to let my feeling be known. I stopped buying music all together and only listen to the radio. Since the 6 publishers pulled this stuff a few months back, I have stopped buying ebooks. Games will follow the same route. Unfortunately, producers have to learn the same lesson that us common folk have learned. In these times, you have to change your model because the old days are dead, buried and gone.

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Colleen Rogers
Jun 1, 2010, 11:16pm

Actually, I don't work for Big Fish. I am a happy customer though. Try again! ;)

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FoxyDi
Jun 1, 2010, 11:49pm

Ok everybody don’t think about there not being the number of games that are being produced but the types of games. How many cheery, bright, light, wonderful life stuff games have you seen lately? No wonder nobody cares about the offerings when all we get is the dark side of life. Are depressing games suppose to tantalize us. Why do all the developers want to create downers? Aren’t games suppose to be a fun thing to do when we get home from work and want something fun to do other than watch TV? If life was tough at the office today, why would I want to know that somebody got trapped somewhere or had to escape a kidnapped situation. I could just stay at the office and feel that way. Sure there have been a lot of mergers lately with the game people and they have their issues but they also need to think about the people who buy their product. If you create a good product, we will all buy and it is all now apparently at the same price so should not matter where the offer comes from. I want to see some more fun in my life and I'm pleased to report that I see a new Samantha Swift is on the horizon so that makes me happy I want to enjoy a game and have fun with it and not feel like it is a chore to get it done.

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puzzledone
Jun 2, 2010, 12:49am

As a low fixed income senior, my entertainment budget will be the same regardless how many games I may want. Granted, the BF club prices allow me to buy a lot more games than in the past, and here come punch cards, DDs and discount promos. So sure, I get a lot more games, but still prefer quality over quantity and would just buy fewer but spend the same monthly. And every free game I get I cringe wondering who takes the hit, BF or the dev since I paid no money and want to keep those devs in business. Many of my favorites are "best things come in small packages", that get panned for being too short. I never complain a game is too short but hope there will be a sequel. I'm not a speed player either, I like to soak up all the visual treats and take my time. I'm creative myself in several arts and am particular, look for and admire excellence in artwork, good writing, (rare in games especially humor) editing, how it all fits together with a good concept. I don't buy by the yard, can enjoy a shorter great game just as much replaying as first time. I buy fewer with the trend in dark, dreary mysteries, but not many lighthearted or funny games, maybe just 3 that made me laugh this past year. Most of us oldies play to relax and have fun, less stress, depressing themes or braintwisting. Maybe we are just another niche within a niche, but whatever happened to humor and comedy? I've only bought 2 CEs recently for the integrated strategy guide which I paid separately for with reg Dire Grove and MCF RTR. On the more difficult games I don't like leaving the game to find a walkthrough. So, those 1 cost me $14, didn't want the other trimmings. Then when the reg versions of good CEs do come out I can't believe they sell for only $6.99, devs deserve far more than that and I'd rather pay more to reward them. Starving artists yeh, what's new? Others expect you work for nothing because it must be "fun" or you get to work at home.... I could go 6 months playing and finishing all the games I got in quantity the past 6 months with low prices, easily pay more for fewer quality games that were CEs before by upping the reg price to $10-12, not lowering the CE price and cutting off future projects. So, spending the same monthly, I'd just be selective and buy fewer games. (and get caught up playing and replaying all of them)

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phatkhat
Jun 2, 2010, 1:06am

Personally, I would rather see only three or four games a week, as is common on sites other than BFG, if they were better games. I would also happily pay 10 bucks for a good game of decent length. I didn't think twice about shelling out 10 bucks for Magic Encyclopedia 3 the day Alawar released it. Loved the game, and didn't ever regret spending the $$$.

On the other hand, I'm not buying CEs, unless they have a huge amount of extra play. I don't care about strategy guides, as most casual games are easy enough that I don't need them. (Old adventure gamer of the Myst generation, LOL.) And I really don't care about screenshots, wallpapers, concept art, etc. I will pay $20 for a Large File Adventure, but not for an IHOG.

If the games are going to stay at around $7, I would sure rather have a really good game that lasts for an hour than a mediocre or bad one that lasts for 5 hours.

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pashdi2
Jun 2, 2010, 1:08am

I totally agree with Joel Brodie in what he has to say. I'm a baby boomer and I haven't had much input into forums lately for reasons at home that I don't want to go into. Only found this forum by chance by clicking the wrong button. I play casual games mainly because there is nothing on any TV stations for me to watch. However, there has been much talk about prices and length of casual games in past forums and I notice the same conversations from a few comments here that I have read, it keeps going around in circles, year after year. My feelings about games; good games have to be firstly enjoyable whether I want to spend $7 or $20. My closest to anything in horror or spooky is "Fishdom: Spooky Splash" which keeps me amused until I get bored, leave for months then might play again. There are certain games that I can't and won't play. There are games that I feel have just been put together because demand outweights supply, I don't know, this is just how I see it. I purchase many, good, lengthy games from various game sites besides the popular two or three and pay anywhere from $US19.99 which converted into Australian currency is slightly more, all depending on the exchange rate. No matter how much I spend online, its still cheaper than me purchasing the game in a retail store. Not to mention the $20 it cost me for the petrol to get there. I like playing HOG, match 3, jigsaw puzzles, mahjong and solitaire. I can't play TMG, too fast for me, so miss out there. And search, not just the two where I am a member but do the entire circuit that do not contribute to the norm. Maybe we should go back to the early days with one decent game weekly instead of daily in each category for $19.99. I don't know. Latest good game I played was "Eternity." With all the games out there, my favourite to this day is still Hidden Expedition: Amazon."..........Sorry, don't want to offend anyone. Simply my views and how I see it.

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phatkhat
Jun 2, 2010, 1:18am

To Foxy Di... We have had this discussion numerous times on the forums at BFG. There are those that like the lighter fare: bright, cheerful, upbeat and all that. But the majority seem to like the spooky, creepy, scary, etc. - okay, DARK - games best. The developers make what sells. I'm not keen on most of the "light" games - they are pretty boring. Give me another Ravenhearst any day!!

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carfixer1957
Jun 2, 2010, 1:30am

@ Cake for dinner- Do you have a solution to the piracy issue or are you part of the problem? If you can come up with an alternative solution to prevent piracy, please let's hear it. If not and you don't like my opinion, too bad. How would you like it if you were deprived of hard earned money because people were stealing from you?

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sukibabe
Jun 2, 2010, 2:16am

Yes,(meaning GZ) and if you keep promoting Facebook, I-Phone and Online games it will get worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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SublimeOne
Jun 2, 2010, 2:38am

I'm glad to see an intelligent discussion about this issue. I would happily pay a couple of dollars more for better quality, longer games but I have yet to buy a CE because there is no real value added for me. Wallpapers and artwork are useless to me and Gamezebo posts the best walkthroughs in the business for free. That said, in my world, I'd make a few changes: 1. Reduce the trial period to 30 mins. I generally know before the 20 min mark if I'm going to buy the game. With some games being so short now, I've actually been able to complete the whole game within the 1 hour trial period. Obviously, that's a sale out the window since I've already finished the game. 2. Do a better job of quality testing. I beta test for a few places and it's very frustrating to point out serious spelling and grammar errors, only to find the game released without any corrections. BFG is the big fish in the casual game world and if they insisted on better quality, it would become an industry standard. 3. Raise the price to 8.99 or 9.99. No higher, particularly with the economy the way it is. But this should be a manageable price for most and should help the developers out. 4. In exchange for the higher price, put a minimum time limit on gameplay, especially for the HOGs. Obviously some people play faster than others. But it's easy to work out average gameplay time. A game that takes 1 to 2 hours just isn't long enough, particularly if the price is raised. A minimum of 3-4 hours should be standard. Finally, I would say to those who complain about a game - don't buy it! I'm continually amazed at people who post long rants about how awful a game is and at the end say they are buying it anyway. Stop buying the crappy games and they will go away. Vote with your dollars.

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 3:19am

This isn't a statement this is a fact. The Largest distributor in the world was probably thinking to gain an even bigger market share... by finishing of the competition. Meaning other large publishers that either couldn't drop prices or didn't feel it to be the right choice. (Or as i understand it Competing with an Outside Trader like Amazon. They sell goods, not games. They have a different approach all together. There is no need for Amazon as a channel if developers would generate enough revenue share with the gamepublishers instead of product traders.) The result being: they are finishing the funds for new investments into the download market. By doing so strangling the casualdeveloper. Resulting in a Download market Status Quo. I have always wondered why is it that companies that do so well grow an unhealthy lust for more. The urge to expand and increase revenue has clearly had an effect on the market and that effect is negative. It has transformed and healthy business into a struggling market. What is the point in trying to be the absolute king if you have no country to rule? It doesn't matter who was first with this price drop it matters what the consequences are for a market that was growing or once very healthy! | So here is what the solution is: The minimum price should be higher now that every body know this. companies are prohibited to make agreements on prices. But there is a thing that is called market mechanism when you see that pricedrop kills that market: Set new standards. Stop the nonsense of a Collectors edition and just make the correct moves. The casual game that were being produced are worth more than $6.99 And everybody is now aware of that. The market mechanism calls for a normal price and not an ultra low price. The most healthy way of going about this is not to set a standard price. There can be $6.99 games. But they will be small and of the quality that everybody is complaining about. Why not have prices according to what product you are selling? $ 6.99 for a small not so good game. $ 9.99 a better game $ 14.99 for a good game $ 19.99 for a very good game. What is the problem with having the quality of your game determine the price? Isn't that how it should work? Further more isn't that 30% that apple is taking not themore healthy approach anyway. Doesn't anybody recognize what this has done for the App store? Isn't that growing? I am clearly not the only one that sees this? Will the large publishers please wake up now! I hope that everybody sees this now and normal actions can be taken to correct this huge mistake! And hey the mistake has been made no shame in saying hey i did something unhealthy we made a mistake... now i am going to do the things to get healthy again. Price settings that are realistic! and Realistic share for the the publishers. WAKE UP AN ACT WITH APPROPRIATE MEASURES BEFORE IT"S TO LATE FOR MANY!!!!

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 3:57am

Not agreeing with 'Julio Gorgé' at all. ( A few reactions up ) A good HOG costs a great amount of money to develope. Somewhere between $150.000 and $300.000. Artwork, story and Immersive environment are never easy and costly! ( Try to make games as Drawn or any other on that level of quality and it will cost you )

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 4:04am

@ Picman050967 Bigfish should not have dropped the prices to stay in business but they should have given developers better conditions. So that they would get games exclusively and developers would trust their games to them all together. The point is this: Amazon is just a trader. If the download market falls down they are just going to sell. Gadgets or Household goodies..... What is the game market gonna sell ???? Every decision made should benefit and protect the market you are in. What is the point in competing with Amazon with a lower price? If it slowly strangles the source of your product? If Amazon does not sell for the correct price they will not get the new games for about 2 years and they get the discounters....

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OprawA
Jun 2, 2010, 4:18am

jambo48 (6 hours ago) You're totally right! 70% of casual games are developed in Eastern Europe and former USSR countries (CIS). More than that, for example, BFG (and some others) take from 60 to 70% of revenue. Then comes the share of the publisher (who helps developer to distribute games and contacts BFG and other portals - 30-50%) and finally developer gets his part... You should not be Einstein to count how small is the developer's part (1 - 1,5 USD - and keep in mind taxes they pay too). High-quality games (within the current system) are sponsored and developed only by BFG and some other portals. They get appropriate promotion are focused SPECIFICLY on HOG genre with rare exceptions... What quality (or diversity in genres) can we speak about in scope of this situation?

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 4:18am

I would like to say the following to Picman. Big publishers have recommended the development of HOGS rathers than TM games a while ago when TM games were still doing very well. They actually did chase away the TM consumer. @Cecilia What is the point in bashing on Picman. I don't know who everbody is and what company they represent.... The point is we finally come to a conclusion here in a very important discussion. But the solution is simple: Higher but realistic price setting judged on the quality and size of a game. Better promoting for a diversity of genres. Better shares for developers. By doing so cutting out the resellers that sell for a non realistic lower price setting. Developers are not going to deal with an Amazon for example if the revenue from Bigfish or Real or any other Big publisher is rewarding the devotion. It is as simple as that.

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OprawA
Jun 2, 2010, 4:39am

Gamerman, Cecilia assumes (I'm sure correctly) that picman is Paul Thelen himself - please google the name if you don't know.

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Kayleigh_
Jun 2, 2010, 6:42am

@ Picman/Paul Thelen

You might be right, that others started dropping the prices, but none of them was big enough to really have an impact on the casual download games market. BFG says (for sure correctly) they are the biggest on the market. How can you say now, that smaller publishers brought you into the situation, that you HAD to drop prices (and with this the revenues of the developer). It was BFG bringing developers and other portals in trouble. In a lot of ways. You know, insiders know and a lot of players start realizing also.

And no, BFG does not bring a lot of good games. Due to the fact of daily 1 new game (at least), you bring out even more bad then good games.

After a lot of developers went down, after Portals went down, after you started to see the success of your efforts - you brought up Premium Editions BFG started the Premium Edition with a lot of knickknack, but not giving more play time or better games. Dire Grove was the first, when I remember right. It was for sure a nice game, but it was not a Premium Game. You talk about experiementing with games for Premium that have a higher budget? Games coming from BigFish seem to have more less the same bugdet, seem from playing time, graphics and so on. The same budget as the real good games do not coming out of the BFG Workshop do have. Stopp thinking, that players simply rely on what BFG is saying. Consider that they can think and see.

We get the games, we pay for... $ 6.99 (or € 5.99). But till now, there was only one game worth the Premium Edition Price in my opinion - Royal Envoy. And that was not yours (by the way: Why should I possibly pay a collector edition at BFG, when the developer offers it for the same prize? I prefer to give the developers what they deserve).

Joel is right with most of what he says, in my opinion. And that a Paul Thelen (or some one near him) thinks, he has to reply on this shows a lot:

Joel is right

P.T thinks, that there is a need to correct this statements/facts in the hope to be able to put back the blindfold on players eyes.

BFG is not "untouchable" anymore. And this concerns P.T. Joel speeks out loud what a lot of the people working in this business are saying now for long. Didn't you listen, when your people came back from Casual Connect in February? Didn't they tell you, what was to hear in every corner?

And about the game quality: Actually a lot of games (Ho and TM mainly) are having great graphics, nice playing mechanics. Yes. I agreee. In this case, the quality is getting higher and higher. But same time, they have endless hints, some of them stupid stories, uninspired mini games, sparkling here, highlighted there, dialogues and character talkings with additional hints or even solutions. - no way for the player to explore, to find his own way. You have playing times, that a gamer does not even need to open the second bottle of water. Weekly shooping costs me more time (and more money of course ;) ) then playing these games. Quality and quality can be two different sides of the same coin. But for me the playing quality counts. I do not need high quality video cut scenes, when the story behind is a copy and the game play is boring.

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legal_alien
Jun 2, 2010, 7:30am

Gamerman is probably making games in Switzerland - 250-450k for a HOG? Give me a break!)))))) Julio is absolutely right:try to make the appealing enough art and a great learning curve in a game like Fishdom, and then you will see how way more expensive and time-consuming match3s are! or think how much money PopCap invested into simply drawn and set Plants vs. Zombies...Game development budget is NOT only about quality art, cut scenes, etc...

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SnowHaze
Jun 2, 2010, 7:36am

To expect every game you come across in to to be excellent is absurd, whatever the price. Sure there are dreadful games,. (Some so bad they're actually funny.) However, there are also quality games out there. As a consumer, I consider it my job to search out the best games. If a game is truly excellent, or I feel that the developer has made a great effort to be original , I will go out of my way to purchase the game, even if it costs a little more, because I want that developer to succeed. I also buy many cut rate games, because there are treasures to be found among them. I've tried my hand creating simple games on my own, and I know how labor intensive it is. The exercise has given me a great respect for those who work in the industry. Artists, and many are wonderfully talented, from the programmers to the music, voice and visuals, should be supported. They need to put food on the table, same as anyone else.

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cakefordinner
Jun 2, 2010, 7:38am

"@ Cake for dinner- Do you have a solution to the piracy issue or are you part of the problem? If you can come up with an alternative solution to prevent piracy, please let's hear it. If not and you don't like my opinion, too bad. How would you like it if you were deprived of hard earned money because people were stealing from you?" I don't disagree with your opinion that piracy should be stopped; I agree wholeheartedly. What I disagree with is your suggested "solution;" it seems rather Orwellian. What would I do? I'd prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. I would NOT "kill" them (their hard drives). We'll have a solution to the piracy problem about the same time as the DEA comes up with a solution to stop drug trafficking, or as soon as our government comes up with a solution to stop things like what happened with BP, in the Gulf of Mexico, from happening again...which is never. So, killing someone's hard drive would be revenge (and they'll just get another one), not punishment or prevention. My point is that there is probably NOT a solution, except for software publishers to keep doing what they can to prevent theft and prosecuting the scofflaws when and where they can.

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sillyfeet
Jun 2, 2010, 7:59am

I thought this was a good article, and it conveyed very well the evolution of CE's and how/why they came about and the need for them. My problem with CE's is this: 1. They are almost 3X the price of a "standard" game, and yet they don't give you 3X as much gameplay. Yes, there are a select few who actually care about wallpapers and screenshots but most of us want more game play and CE's don't give us that. I feel like what we get with a CE is an inflated priced product for a lot of filler and a few "extras" that, before CE's, would have just been included in the standard edition anyhow. 2. The way the CE's were introduced naturally created a divide between those who can or will buy them and those who can't or won't. They were marketed as a "way to help the developers keep their jobs". So now you have set up this atmosphere in which the people who buy them are arguing that they are doing something good and noble and the people who don't buy them are made to feel like they are contributing to the downfall of the casual game market by not buying them. Food for thought: when Walmart (or another store) tries to attract customers they ask you to shop there for "the lowest prices" or "the best selection" not so you can "help George in appliances keep food on his table". IMO...they were marketed all wrong and contributed to this "great divide" we now have amongst gamers. 3. There is a better way to recoup costs than this “all or nothing” approach. I would not object to a higher standard price for games, just not one that’s $20. If I am going to pay that much for a casual game I will buy it from the store where I can get the actual box and the disc. However, I would not object to paying slightly higher…say $10..for a download game. Let’s meet in the middle somewhere. Or go back to the tiered system and lock people into a certain number of games a year. You pick the pricing strategy that works for you. Even in this down economy I am sure there are plenty of people who would gladly go back to that system if it meant getting back some club perks that are truly “perks for paying members”. Anyway, that’s my opinion on what the article had to say about the market in general, and CE’s in particular. I agree with them that there seems to be trouble for the download casual market and something needs to be done. I’m just not of the opinion that CE’s are the answer.

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kelly219
Jun 2, 2010, 8:28am

I too agree with most of the comments I do feel that $6.99 is a good price for games and I am a fan of Bigfish and have been for years. I also think the games that are being released are not the same quality as in the past. I do not agree with the collectors price and I do not pay that amount. The big box stores are selling CD versions of the same games at a lower price and you have the CD to take and use in other PC's that is a selling point. Most game players are buying more games but are not getting the satisfaction quality of game that were in the past. I play the HO games and have spent many $6.99 for a game I wish I had never seen yet can not do anything about it. The hour free play time does NOT tell the whole story and before you know it there goes another $6.99 for less than a hour game left to play and not a good one at that. When you take the $6.99 per game and remember most players buy more than two games per 30 days I feel the price is right on line the quality is what is missing in my opinion, S

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 8:30am

Let's face it. CE is just a marketing term for lets get the price back to a normal standard. Now i guess it is clear that the price levels now are not realistic and it should be changed to more realistic prices. What the budgets are concerned: the dollar is now up to par with the euro so yes i was high in the numbers. Thanks for pointing that out :D

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Gamerman
Jun 2, 2010, 8:48am

@cakefordiner Odd comparison you are making. But one thing that comes to mind when i read it. The whole oil spill made it happen that every body is pointing a finger at BP. Although they caused the problem by accident. The result is that the whole environmental disaster is a world issue now so why on earth countries are not putting in all effort to stop that oil leak together remains a mystery to me. Same goes for the whole situation that we are talking about. In stead of pointing fingers and accusing each other we know now what went wrong. We know that the situation as it is now is bad for the whole download market so let's solve it. CE's are just a way of not handling the problem. It's a patch. It should be around: Game Price 1: $ 6.99 Game Price 2 $ 9.99 Game Price 3 $ 14.99 Game Price 4 $ 19.99 Shares to developers in general should be negotiable to better conditions. And any company that thinks that they have the power to do what they feel is right can make mistakes to and can end up in destruction of a very prosperous market. What will they get in return? Better games. Devoted developers. Continued revenue for future years. Last thing i needed to say about this :D

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emichan
Jun 2, 2010, 9:12am

@kelly219 "When you take the $6.99 per game and remember most players buy more than two games per 30 days I feel the price is right on line the quality is what is missing in my opinion" - - - - but the whole point is that most of the developers CANNOT make the quality for those prices, because it costs more than that to make a game. if people are only willing to pay low prices then they are going to mostly get games that are not worth much.

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jani6567
Jun 2, 2010, 9:27am

I guess my game playing days are over. If the price goes up too high, I won't be able to buy. It sure helped me take my mind off the greiving of my son and husband. I thank Big Fish for that. I understand that it is not cheap to develop a game but the volumn sold should suffice keeping the margin of profit up. I sometimes wonder if in order to meet the needs of all players the developers are getting too technical in their offerings thus making the cost a lot higher. Sometimes the simplest games are the most enjoyable.

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SublimeOne
Jun 2, 2010, 10:33am

Kayleigh said "And about the game quality: Actually a lot of games (Ho and TM mainly) are having great graphics, nice playing mechanics. Yes. I agreee. In this case, the quality is getting higher and higher. But same time, they have endless hints, some of them stupid stories, uninspired mini games, sparkling here, highlighted there, dialogues and character talkings with additional hints or even solutions. - no way for the player to explore, to find his own way. You have playing times, that a gamer does not even need to open the second bottle of water." I agree that there has been a real dumbing down of games lately. Perhaps it goes along with the general dumbing down of the entire country but it's a disturbing trend. I am continually looking for games that challenge me. I want to have to work at it a little. The whole reason I game is because it's an activity that works my brain. And an enjoyable one, at that. Games that hold my hand the whole way are of no interest to me. Where is the originality? Where is the creativity? Somewhere along the way we decided pretty pictures were more important than challenging gameplay.

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casualdeveloper
Jun 2, 2010, 11:05am

Joel, good article. In your article you said that people kept silent about this. Well I talked about it to publishers many of times. It was talking to a brick wall. But what I said that would happen, happened. We decided to put a price tag on games that deserve a higher price. Then can call it whatever they want, exclusive, inclusive, very special, I don't care. I call it a game that has a healthy profit at that price! Let's call it a healthy game :) We as a developer just needed to make a stand. If the game is good, people want to buy it at that price point. We have noticed with one of our games that a higher price indeed gave us much more revenue. BUT, the game needs to be worth it. Solution: just sell games in different price categories. Make a system for it, if you must. Or let the market do it's job. It is this way in every market. For us it is simple, if it stays how it is now, we will develop games for other platforms like the iPhone or iPad, cause we must to survive. So I agree with your opinion completely.

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Pepper010
Jun 2, 2010, 11:05am

Joel, great article with many good points to think about. KayLeigh, you made some cogent arguments! I think that the recent rash of low-quality games can be laid at the door of "a new game every day!" BFG is about rush, rush & volume, volume--kinda like the old blue light specials @KMart. When a game with serious problems is released--let's use Heritage as an example--BFG keeps promoting that game because it's the "new game that day!" and lets people just buy it knowing it needs big fixes. As for CE's, I've been all over the landscape on that one. I believe in a free marketplace, but I also think that marketing should be open and honest. If a CE is a really *special" edition of something that's not a common offering, that's one thing. Dire Grove was a special event in many ways. But then it seemed like there was a CE every few days. No, just slinging in wallpaper doesn't add value. And when customers are slung back and forth between "we can do it cheaper cheaper!" and "and now you will pay lots more and we're gonna make you feel guilty about developers if you don't! that creates an uncomfortable situation. (And if people were applauding the lower prices, I betcha Mr. Thelan would be taking credit vs. saying "but the other guy did it first!") Frankly, I feel for quality developers. Given the rush for more, more (every day! new game! cheaper! faster! so what if it doesn't work right now??!!), and given the % cut to some portals, the developers are being pinched, IMHO. And that's showing in the marketplace. Somehow, the cart began driving the horse. I'm not really happy with seeing a portal become the driver instead of the representative for the developers. I don't see how developers of quality work can continue if they're just tossed in with schlock work, promoted equally, and avaricious demands for more, more, faster, faster, continue. Long term, quality is key. But the developers have got to have breathing space and support in order to do more than rush more stuff out for the big blue light specials. I don't game on my phone, or at Facebook, but I doubt that long-term, those markets will displace those of us who enjoy having a game on our cyber-shelves to play as a focused activity on our bigger PC/Mac screens. Hard to experience a really great iHOG, etc. if you're also dealing with incoming messages from friends or the endless updates on Facebook. Like a good book or a good movie: a really good game is immersive, and is a true recreational experience. Just my opinion, and worth exactly what you've paid for it! :)

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lvd162
Jun 2, 2010, 11:35am

Amen!

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ApGames
Jun 2, 2010, 11:47am

Or keep the price at 6.99$ and increase the developers %

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zahnprod
Jun 2, 2010, 12:36pm

Lots of great comments here (and a great original essay by Joel). I just wanted to observe that the very "first" BFG CE was "Dire Grove" (developed BY BFG) and part of their sales pitch at the time was "ooooh! it has real videos innit". During the "Extras" we discovered that they had shipped an entire film crew, including actors, technicians, wardrobe, costume, and all the other dozens of required workers TO ARGENTINA so they could film realistic snow scenes in the mountains during the northern hemisphere summer. It's really a shame that the United States has no mountains or snow or film studios. They might have been able to save at least $200,000 and reduce the cost of the game, but that wasn't part of their plan, was it? Their plan seems to have been to establish the IDEA of a higher price point for "CE" games, and to somehow justify it. (The videos were not all that special, anyhow.)

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ducle
Jun 2, 2010, 12:37pm

I agree that BFG releasing a game every day is a sure way to cut down on overall quality. But another culprit is single-tier pricing (not counting CE's for the moment). Isn't a large file, graphics-intensive, long-play game worth more than a shallow and/or very short game with poor graphics? I think it's foolish to charge the same price for the MCF games as you do for games that don't come anywhere near that standard. I'd bet that people would be fine with paying more for Return to Ravenhurst, for example, than they do for (insert name of incoherent, poorly programmed, cartoonishly illustrated, very short game here.) On the piracy issue, I'd just reiterate that not only is it illegal, but pirates also run the risk of damage to their computers. Not worth it no how, so even if your ethics are insufficient to make you pay for your downloads, pirating is something you shouldn't do. As for the CE's: I haven't bought any and I never will, as long as their premium features are things like wallpaper and behind-the-scenes info. If the game quality isn't there in the first place, no amount of "stuff" is going to make it worthwhile to me. On the other hand, I wouldn't be reluctant to pay $19.99 for a really great game. It would be interesting to know how well the CE's sell.

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V-Prophecy
Jun 2, 2010, 1:00pm

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carfixer1957
Jun 2, 2010, 1:10pm

Hidden object games can cost as much, or more than time management games to produce. MCF 6 cost over a million dollars. However.........hidden object games are much easier to program than time management games. Just ask the creators of Ranch Rush, Royal Envoy, or Burger Shop. Time management games have balancing issues which is what usually keeps them in beta for so long... Don Keizer

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cardinella
Jun 2, 2010, 1:14pm

"We are 100% American, develop 100% of the games we make here, and darn proud of it! " Well, that's nice to know.

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lackoo
Jun 2, 2010, 2:52pm

As i wrote on BFG's forum. CE should contain the bonus materials of the game ( wallpaper , strategy guide,soundtrack) .As i mentioned, i don't understand why should i have to pay $19.95 for for example Runch Rush 2 CE if i want to play in freeplay mode. Was it really necessary to cut out this game mode from the regular version ? edit: I live in Hungary,so i have to pay 25% VAT after each purchase.

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princess_josie
Jun 2, 2010, 4:20pm

I agree with most of what's said but I later did not become a fan of HOG because after a while how hard is it to find an object? I was a true beta tester gamer. I would and others around the globe would gladly pay over $7-20 for a game if the game truly entertained like it was geared to. I admit I have given games 1-2 starts for performance and lack of things to entertain the gamer but isn't that what I'm rating? The ENTIRE experience? I was one of the first people to sign up on BigFish Games and others sites because at one time there was a diversity in the product and developers were truly trying to top on another. Gamers were blogging incessantly about the Chocolatier, Diner Dash, et al. Now there are mergers and beta testers are being squeezed out of truly trying a game in a full beta so our reviews can no longer fire up others gamers when the game's released resulting in developers making money. I'd like to thank Extreme Bean Coffee House in Tempe AZ for all those times they kept me in mochas during their 24 hour Fridays and Saturdays while I literally played a beta game in its entirety! Orchid Games is a good example of this. On their site they have different versions of their games ( G or E for everyone and what I call the grown and sexy versions) for the price they want to set and they LISTENED to their fans on betas whether it was Granny or Heartwild enterprises. Heartwild Solitaire 2 is a raving success and I bet they made profit, too. Darek isn't saying, but I bet they did! On the time management developing front, I understand the issues involved with the programming but when DinerTown Tycoon came out and kicked a$$, no one else created anything as innovative on the genre. Then Avenue Flo came out and it was like the wind out of the sails moment because folks were calling DTT the game of the year but then...crickets chirping.... nothing innovative came next from other game developers save for the release of the last JoJo's Fashion Show World Tour release. Developing games just for one platform or just going to I-Phone further enraged gamers who want to play without having to get the next newest game without having to highbrow their phone. (Hot Dog Hotshot) Basically there needs to be more opportunities like this one for sounding off and getting feedback. Maybe good results can come from it. No innovation, no fans , no buyers, no money...it's the quid quo pro of gaming today.

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ushie
Jun 2, 2010, 5:25pm

I would absolutely pay $20 for the Premium of Puppet Show:Collector of Souls or games on that level, and am saving up for it now. I would pay $15 for Nancy Drew games. And I would pay $10-12 for any Build-A-Lot or Fishdom plain ol' game, because I don't need wallpaper, etc., for every game, but I do enjoy attractive games with repeat playability. I will not pay a dime for badly-thought-out, badly translated, or badly-plotted games with terrible graphics and incoherent directions. And I would pay a LOT of money for the next Duke Nukem--alas, I will never get the chance...

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ushie
Jun 2, 2010, 5:29pm

Oh, and I do enjoy well-thought-out time management games--like Jane's Whatevers, Potion Bar, Virtual City, and such. I would like the opportunity to play at different types of "time," though, like Beginner, Expert, etc.

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SublimeOne
Jun 2, 2010, 6:23pm

Princess Josie makes an excellent point about testing. As a beta tester, it's exceedingly rare that I am given the opportunity to truly test a whole game. So maybe the first chapter or two works fine but then all the problems start. Nightfall Mysteries: Curse of the Opera is a good example of this. It worked fine until almost the end of the game. Then many, many of us have a crash after a particular puzzle. It's a known problem and has been since the game came out. Good beta testing of the whole game, not just the first hour, could have identified this before it was released. On the other hand, the developer still hasn't solved the problem so who knows? BFGs response is a free game credit - nice, but still doesn't let me finish a game I was really enjoying. Very disappointing! I will say that I'm currently testing an absolutely amazing adventure HOG called Brunhilda: The Dark Crystal from Codeminion and Twin Bottles and they have allowed full and complete testing for a small group of testers. Not only that, but they are actually making changes, and lots of them. They are really being responsive to their testers in all aspects of the game. This is exactly what the industry needs. Dedicated and responsive developers and creative thinking. The result? A funny, beautiful, interesting, creative and fun to play game which I would pay for even though I've played it through several times already. Oh, and yes, they are from Europe. But does that really matter any more? Aren't we all one big global village? My internet doesn't have political or geographic boundaries - does yours?

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puzzledone
Jun 2, 2010, 7:40pm

V PROPHECY wrote - " the community of players found here was growing and becoming much more sophisticated in their gaming choices. This played a huge role in what we did with that game and what we plan to do in the future. Thank you to everyone that played Mishap and supported it... And we hope you're ready for what we have in store! BTW- We are 100% American, develop 100% of the games we make here, and darn proud of it! " BRAVO as I am among those ready for whatever you have in store. I commented earlier there were only 3 good games that made me laugh in a year, yours is top of the short list. Too sophisticated for some maybe but we are out here. I was aghast that this was slow to catch on at BF, not even on the top 5 or 10 but it was not featured just a soft release and we had to tell our friends about it on forums and PMs. I had read about it first on GZ. I couldn't believe it could sell for just $6.99 either as labor intensive as it must have been, original, just pure fun. If you're going for spooky, make it fun, a satire. I couldn't find one flaw in that game, and liked the way I could play a chapter at a time, not one long time commitment. Keep pushing those envelopes. What I don't understand re pricing is I can't think of other products not priced in relation to costs creating the product. So, seems to me the devs should set the price accordingly to their initial expenses. And very creative people can cost more to hire or contract out. Tech people aren't the most creative in my experience, then the money people can kill a project or water it down to banal. Thank you for sticking to your integrity releasing the most original game I've bought to date. I want more and willing to pay for it in place of 3 run of the mill time bandits!! My time is worth something too and can't afford to waste it at 73.

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puzzledone
Jun 2, 2010, 8:47pm

I want to add that I don't think BF need worry about losing members if tier pricing were set to keep good devs alive. It's their CUSTOMER SERVICE that keeps or brings back members. It's very wise for BF to put money in CS because even if one has to pay a bit more for a game it gives us the main incentive and security to buy there. However, as more and more games are quickly flung their way with more and more tech problems (people either upgrade or not their own pcs to keep up with technology but it's not always our fault). Even their response time is getting stretched from a few hours to up to 48 hrs. 3 games I bought or wanted in one month needed rebuilds which was rare for me. Why should paying customers or BF have to be beta testers? If BF has to raise prices, it could be to keep hiring more techs in customer service to work with devs to fix things we have to report. Recently I've counted how many pages of glitch posts on forums before even buying and wait to see if fixed. I do demo but as we know one can be further in the gameplay. I know there are too many configurations and systems to match all games sys req but this ratio seems to have become way disproportionate. So BF now is not only selling games but CS is still the biggest selling point keeping them on top. Are they losing revenue having to make refunds or exchanges and still paying the devs they have to collect data for and inform while also having to hire more staff? Like who to blame and who should pay as our other big cleanup mentioned. So far I know what I get with a game price is still the best CS around and worth any price they have to adjust to. I never bought a game from Amazon, so I don't know if one can reinstall if you crash or bought a new pc. I only know I lost ALL the music I ever bought there when my pc crashed and they don't offer reinstall. Wouldn't matter on games anyway because I'm not straying just to save $2. If BF doesn't have a game I like, I'll just wait til another comes along.

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Gamerman
Jun 3, 2010, 4:18am

What is the point of talking about individual games? The thing is if the situation continues how it is now. There will be less and less Casual Download developers! I Phone/ I Pad and Facebook offer more return on investment... 3 years ago there was a growth in the casual market of 25%. 2 years ago still 25% growth Last year the price drop was introduced. The growth of the casual market continues but not because of the download market. That growth has decreased and will decrease further and further. That means that many developers have jumped on the Facebook train or are growing Apple trees. Or are doing this right now... The $ 6.99 is simply not enough to try new concepts. Develop a game that is exceptional. Big Fish or any other Big publisher have to realize that the growth of their business is heavily depending on the developers. There are just not enough financial resources to develop new concepts or sticking your head out as a developer... Why take a risk? If you know you will struggle to break even on a game? Doesn't this make sense to anyone? Doesn't anyone see that for Play First to team up with Big fish was a necessity. That was one huge TM developer right there! But not all developers are going to join Big Fish because many want to be independent. Download market will slowly but surely change into a business you don't want to be in....if this continues!

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pjries
Jun 3, 2010, 9:28am

You know, perhaps what we're seeing is more a diversification of the "Casual Games' market, where there's a low end, a middle and a high end, and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe developers would do well to target those markets, rather than try to be all things to all people. It's not unlike what we see in the retail business - some people prefer shopping at designer boutiques and some at discount stores. I buy a lot of download games these days - more than I did when they all were $20. I am willing to spend $7 for two to four hours of entertainment. But for $20, I find that I want more. I want to be able to replay the game. I want it to challenge me more and to require more of a time investment. But I don't want to play those longer games all the time and I like having the option of something that costs less and requires less of me.

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BasiaKosia
Jun 3, 2010, 9:31am

Seems everyone here has covered all topics pretty thoroughly. If anyone is keeping track of the comments, I'll only add that I would also pay more for a good quality HOG, IHOG/Adventure game. Before stumbling across BFG, I was paying the $19.99 at another site. Then I started noticing them at the retail stores and found that for the same price I received a disk. That was convenient because I could install on all my computers (we have 2 laptops, 2 desktops). After a month or so at $19.99, the price dropped to $9.99. The only thing missing was the big box. It was just the disk and I don't need the box anyway. And I have replayed many of the earlier games I purchased when there was nothing new in the stores. Unfortunately, now that I've discovered these games, I'm not willing to wait that long to buy. At BFG, I can purchase the game for $6.99 and a backup disk, if I choose to, for $7.99 as soon as it comes out. As far as CEs go, I don't want the wallpapers, screen shots, or music. I do, however, want the extra game play for that price. I've only purchased two CEs and one Premium Edition so far. I'm also becoming a bit more selective about the games. Don't have the extra time right now to demo them, so I rely on the User Reviews, but only certain members' reviews. So this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it :-) Bobbie

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BasiaKosia
Jun 3, 2010, 9:39am

I forgot to mention that I do have an IPhone and have tried some of the HOGs developed for said phone. The objects can be difficult to find even when the screen is magnified. There are times when I'm somewhere that is just too noisy to focus on a book and I really can't sit doing nothing, so I'll play a game on the phone. The simple games (Labrynth, Boxed In, etc.) work best for me.

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Musenik
Jun 3, 2010, 7:55pm

If I were BigFish and the other casual portals, I would be culling my catalog. It's time for venders to sell only the best games they carry. This is a non-trivial proposition, as it requires careful consideration for each game culled. For example, just culling poor selling games would not be wise. As many good games sell poorly but have a strong, long tail. Keeping the good poor sellers around increases diversity, as they tend to be oddball games. Diversity of games keeps your customers diverse, but diversity is what is lacking, and that is the real death-spiral here. HOGs are a problem. They've sold so well, they've pushed the other birds out of the nest. Developers mostly make 'safe' products, replicating the games that sell well. Now developers don't know what might sell other than HOGs! Also (repeating Joel here) HOGs dominate the portals such that many customers are leaving to find other kinds of games. Sure, the casual customer base is growing overall. Thank Facebook and iPhone games for being such lowest common denominators, that some of their fans may be exploring downloadable portals for games. But if only HOGs await them... only a certain number will download games. Portals need to greet new customers with a wealth of gameplay options. Oh, and they need to raise prices! :-)

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mfeury
Jun 5, 2010, 11:03pm

The CE thing is marketing smoke. If it was genuinely to "save starving developers", then BigFish, Amazon etc would not be taking their massive [eg 65%] cuts from the CE extra component. $20 CE: Amazon gets extra ~$10, pub/dev get extra ~$3-4. So keep $7 price, make CE $10, but give all the extra $3 to pub/dev. Then there would be truth in the CE story.

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TotalEclipse
Jun 8, 2010, 7:31am

This has been a very interesting read for me, with a lot of diverse opinions and truths, "buried" in-between people's comments. What I think is important, but wasn't mentioned extensively before, is that every entity in the casual games market is a business and businesses need to survive and make profit or they will seize to exit altogether. Like in other markets, here too, the Publishers/Distributors depend on the Developers, because it is them who provide them with the content for their portals. Without them, there would be no business for them. What the portals have managed to achieve, is to collect as many customers as possible, offering them special offers and other trinkets, that in the end only benefit the portals and hurt developers badly. People have become so used to seeing/playing a new game every day, that they consider all games easy to make, easy to disregard as not worthy of their time, easy to forget and move on to the next. Yes, people are becoming "collectors of games" and will usually try most of what comes out, but of course most will be just a forgettable experience. And that makes people think that all games should cost less. But they shouldn't. Great quality games are rare. They should be; it's what makes them great. It's what it takes to make a great game that differentiates it from the rest and hopefully that becomes evident as people experience the game. But although you can always spot a couple of flowers in a garden full of weeds, a time comes that if you don't pick those weeds out, the flowers will eventually vanish. The solution may sound simplistic, but it isn't. Get rid of the weeds. Discard the bad games, the cheap-looking ones, the ones that were made just to make a quick buck. Focus on, nurture and promote the ones that were made with passion, love; the ones made for the customer, not for one's bank account. And reward the Developers for making such games. But of course, businesses must make profit and from a point on they become greedy and they want more, more, more! It is then that they lose sight of what is really good for the market; a quick buck or something more sincere and long-lasting. We're just about finishing working on the sequel of The Clockwork Man and we're really tired; exhausted. We've given our heart and soul for this game and I could write many pages of what it's taken for us to make it. (Maybe Gamezebo would be interested in a future interview...) But I've rambled a lot, so I'll close with what I consider the most important of everything I've said above. Do you want to see great games coming out? Then support the Developer; because to the portals it's just another game they're distributing; but to the Developer is their fuel for making more of what people love to play. Argiris

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ladygem6
Jun 9, 2010, 2:29pm

While I agree with most of you, on the other hand, take the average player, like for instance, me. When BFG was charging twenty dollars a game, or even ten bucks, I would purchase only one a month. Whereas now, I sometimes buy six. 42 dollars is much more than twenty bucks, or ten. I don't know how everyone plays, but in the forums, I read that lots do buy more games now that the price is reduced. I know that if the price for games go up, I will purchase less. Is this good or not? But like everything, fads come and go. Who knows how long the gamers will enjoy this kind of entertainment, or what might be next just about the corner. I will keep buying and playing the games until something drastic comes up. Then we'll see.

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Pat Reish
Jun 13, 2010, 12:08pm

Mythreesons Since you mentioned that you like TM games, I was wondering if you have checked out Play First games. Most of their original games are TM games.

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cakefordinner
Jun 15, 2010, 6:00pm

Kudos to Cecelia's comments, way up at the top. You GO, girl!

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ReinerK
Jun 20, 2010, 3:49pm

In my view one important factor is a inherent flaw in the HOG genre: they offer to limited gameplay for the costs! They are short and have limited replay value. I think at least twice to buy a game that gives around 3 hours fun and is then over and forgotten. So in HOGs you get less fun out of the development budget compared to other genres. I guess this is also a contributing factor to the low prices.

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