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Post a reply << Go BackTopic: Is it just me?
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PS--I also would love to see more Inlay games. NOT just the same-ol' same-ol', but as with all genres they should be stepping up and evolving too.
I also downloaded a fairly older game I'd played way back when--Bird Island/Snapshop. You basically try to snap pics of birds and are then judged on quality. It was a very diverting game and I was sorry that no other games built on that model have been developed.
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ScribbleMuse, you are not alone in your thinking. It has been quit a dry spell lately. I can't judge from the TM point of view because I don't play them. I know that some of the Hidden Object games quality hasn't been there lately. I don't know if that is because we are getting use to having an RTR type of game and have become more selective with our likes or what. I'm hoping that the developers will see that just because it is summer time we don't stop playing games. This is just my opinion. Good forum topic!!!
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Scribble Muse.... You make a lot of great points. Unfortunately, it seems that the Inlay Genre is just about dead. However there are plenty of them that are still around. Puzzlelab used to be the king of inlay games. Unfortunately, (and this is me saying this lol), they have put all of their efforts into mediocre time management games, and have stopped making inlay games. Gamehouse had a couple on Inlya games a few years ago and Reflexive has 2 great inlay games- Mosaic Tomb of Mystery and Ancient Mosaic. You should also try Artic Quest 1 and 2 by Alawar.
As for new and interesting games, Iwin has a game called Cocunut Queen on the Horizon. Haven't played it, but I heard it pokes fun at Virtual Villagers games and it is so much more fun to play. You might also want to try Sprouts Adventure on Reflexive.
Hey Scooter! Hope you are doing well! What HOGs have you been playing lately?
Don:)
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I know what you mean I have 2 games that I have downloaded and played each one half way thru and dont feel like finishing them. I feel like I have gamed out. I'm glad that I am not the only one
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Hi ScribbleMuse... I agree with Scooter a lot... and I believe we're getting used to play f.i. the look-a-like HOG games and always curious to see better and more challaging games and even better than RTR. It's up to the Developers to try to get information from gamers like you and keep there ears and eyes open to see what kind of gamers are looking for.. and do hope they're able to do something with that information.
Good luck and keep us posted...Thanks for the topic..
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it's not only up to the developers - it's up to the portals to be willing to take a chance. ive heard people complain that places wouldn't publish their games because they were not HOGs so the portals didnt think they would sell.
there are an AWFUL lot of people making games on the internet! but to find some of them you have to look in more places than just the standard sites that get known for selling one thing and then only sell that one thing.
all the portals want to do is make money - as long as hogs keep being big hits they will keep selling them.
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Hi Don, I'm well and you? That's just it, there isn't anything interesting to play. LOL
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I think there are couple of issues at play:
- Prices for games have gone down in the past year. This is a good thing for game players but there is a flip side. If prices go down too low, then good developers go out of business (e.g, Gamelab), stop making downloads (instead, making iPhone games, for instance), and/or spend less time and money to create games. The result of which is less games are coming out and a lot of games coming out are of lesser quality.
- Over the past year, the best selling downloads have been hidden object games instead of puzzles, tower defense, strategy, word games, etc. The result is everyone started to create hidden object games and stopped to create the other type of games. If there is a consumer back-lash, this trend will stop.
To be fair, we do see a lot of really great download games coming out in the next couple of months and we'll be featuring them.
We are, however, going to start to feature more non-download casual games that we think you will like (and of which, a lot are less expensive than download games or free). We are already reviewing 2 iPhone games per week, and we plan to do the same for free flash games and social games (like Facebook). You should notice this over the next few weeks.
Our goal is to find great casual games for you to play no matter what the platform.
This is a very interesting discussion.
Thanks,
Joel
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font-family:"Times New Roman";}Wow—everyone has some really great points here. I'm rather longwinded (long-typed?) so I'll break my replies up a bit—as always, feel free to skim to get the point, or even just ignore... lol
So, I think there are 3 major issues here.
1. Specific game offerings currently available/on the horizon.
2. Gaming platforms & options.
3. The big pink elephant of the role of portal sites versus developers.Specific Game Offerings Current/In the Works:
Carfixer—I think I've done all those inlays except maybe Artic 2. I think that the Ancient Mosaic was probably the high point and one of the last ones. I also still play the original Puzzle Inlays along with their Safari/Adventure offshoots. I find the Mosaics and the Puzzle Inlays to be mostly great visual quality, which is something important to me. I am definitely swayed toward a game that may be slightly subpar/less powerful if it has a much more pleasing design and interface. At the same time, as in the cases of a few of the latest HOG offerings, that's not something that will win me over totally. It has to have the whole package—entertainment, challenge, intuitiveness, AND good looks. If any one of those aspects is low enough, I throw out the entire game.I'll check out Coconut Queen. It's been a while since I really checked out iWin beyond the first page; I have not really seen them coming out with anything farther ahead than BF or PlayFirst, so they've slid to the back of my pecking order. I also have a WildCoins subscription via my laptop pre-loaded Gateway Game console, and even though I canceled it a long time ago, I had amassed hundreds of coins. While WC in my opinion is a little too overloaded in movie/TV tie-in games, they come out with some of the more decent quality download games also. I was first able to access World of Goo via them, and that's just one example (and an example of an extremely innovative game too!).
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Gaming Platforms
Personally I am just a laptop gal. I can't get iPhone unless I totally drop the current provider I have, and I really don't like the facebook games that I have seen/played. I can't really critique either one other than to say that for me, personally, these platform options are not ones that I would consider at this point. One thing I'd really like to see is more options to use with my Wii, such as the download channel. If a developer wanted a great income, IMO, they could figure out some way to merge a subscription service with Wii. I would totally give up every single monthly payment that I am currently losing to portals to just one developer—but only if they offered something that was worth it to me. So far, that has not been something I've seen in the current offerings or relationships from most developers.Consumer Interaction/Developer Response
For one thing, any time I come on Gamezebo, which is at all hours of the night and day, there are up to 2000 or more users according to the front page. While I've seen some of the portal people and developers contribute here, I could also imagine a lot more good could be found here than they're digging up. Just for instance, I've been trying to teach myself to program a little and also trying to figure out how to convert the art I do by hand into digital art. The communities I've been spending a lot of time in lately are Drupal, myBB, Joomla, WP, and a few other mostly open-source resources. In those forums, there are areas where the developers really listen to the requests and suggestions of the ones using their software. I know that we're talking about open source software, which on the surface is free, but think about Joomla—all totally free but the applications and development are making tons of money for those who are able to mine the community for valuable ideas, feedback, and new material.Yeah, these are two different animals, but they don't have to be. Let's take just an example. As developers in an area where overhead has been pretty much eliminated, there has to be some virtual interaction. No more is it possible to be successful with a poor product, customer service, or mediocre stability, because we'll all gather together somewhere to talk about it and compare notes. Whereas before, perhaps it was easy to get away with releasing subpar or clone games because people didn't know that they had any more to expect, now we will come on a site like Gamezebo and complain or rave. Why aren't more developers taking advantage of that? I know there are beta trials, etc, but with the capabilities now available online, there should never, ever be a game released that is a surprise in terms of whether it's good, the value and standards it sets, and whether it's something that is worth paying to play. Maybe the reason WoW is so immensely popular is that it's pretty much an ongoing community project and is consistently adapting to the customer use rather than customers having to get something and suffer an even loss or gain. Casual gaming left the boxes behind a long time ago, but they're not yet grasping the most obvious benefit of doing so.
This leads into the portals versus developers. I hate it that this has gotten to the point that people I consider artists are needing to hock their work and sometimes change a lot about it before they could ever imagine selling it. Again, this is such a strange concept when you think about the vast benefit of the world we're dealing with. When a portal begins to harm more than hurt the product and developer's accomplishment, whose fault is it? I know it sucks that a great casual game can't find a million people willing to spend a solid 20 dollars or more on a hard copy. That doesn't mean that you should just give it up for less than it's worth. Why can't the developer develop a subscription service? Quite frankly, I am extremely happy with subscription services because the majority of casual games are so easily defeated. I don't feel that it's worth spending $20 at a chance for a game I may only play for a couple hours. Take the Dream Chronicles—lovely games, great story, interesting puzzles and beautiful artwork. Yet they are ALL so short, even 3 games into the series, that I refuse to buy the game direct from the developer. Sorry, but that's the fact. In a world when depreciation can be attached to concepts and a fatigue can start to develop around even the most exciting entertainment, you have to be willing to up your product with the times. As much as I'd love to support all the people who are doing such beautiful work, I can't financially afford to do that. And why should I?
If a car manufacturer had a design that was immensely popular, top of the line options, etc, within 5 years it would be out of business if they not only refused to offer more options, but also if other designers had come up with newer options, better performance, and an adaptable framework that could change with the times. No matter how much I may like the original car, no matter even if I knew the owner personally and loved them to pieces, I'm not going to continue to keep paying them for the same model when others are being offered at better prices.
I'm not saying that developers need to suck it up and keep giving me more but expect less from me. On the contrary—I'd give money straight to the developer if they had something I wanted to buy, and that I felt was worth the money. IMO, $20 is a lot of money, even though I technically am doing pretty well right now financially. However, I've been dirt poor, homeless, and wondered where in the world I was going to find money to pay an electric bill, so I am also pretty careful with HOW I spend my money and who "deserves" it. I have always been a strange mix of illogical emotion and cold, hard business sense, and this is no exception.
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Carfixer,
Glad that you are onto the upcoming release Coconut Queen!!! I worked on the game as 1 of 2 level designers. The tone of the game is light hearted and witty, the writing and storylines are hilarious and the objectives for each level are very creative (or so I would like to think). When the game releases, do yourself a favor and give it a try. It has some Build-a-Lot elements, but it brings sooooooo much more to the table.
Ciao,
Tyler Nation
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Coconut Queen...yeah, the beta was wonderful. Not especially because of the gameplay, which did not impress me that much (although still being very good), but the atmosphere of the game really blew me away. Music, voices, the humour, the graphics, it's just awesome. The perfect balance between trash and satire, I love it. It reminds me a little bit of this animation series on MTV, with those two agents. Unfortunately, I cant remember its name, but it was awesome, too :D
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We had a similar, albeit far less detailed, discussion on Big Fish about this not that long ago.
There is a need for more innovation in games but that's hard to do given the ever decreasing price points. I'd happily pay another buck or two per game if the quality was there but higher pricing guarantees nothing.
I absolutely agree about the dearth of word games. This must be rectified - and soon! But with more than a second grade vocabulary please. Games that don't include the entire english language are more frustrating than fun.
What's a developer to do? How do you satisfy a diverse audience who wants challenge and simplicity? Timed and untimed? Not too short and not too long?
It's my opinion that a good game is a good game, regardless of the genre. RTR drew in fans from way beyond the hidden object arena. Totem Tribe crossed genres very successfully.
Make great games. Just plain great. Beautiful graphics. Innovative storylines. Creative puzzles. Smart and funny dialogue. Challenging and fun gameplay.
Do that. And I'll pay whatever you want.
Oh, and loads of us don't have iPhones. Some never will. These forums are full of seniors, the disabled, the unemployed and stay at home parents who can't afford, or don't want, to pay that much for a phone. Remember who you're programming for.
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Is it just me?
Report as InappropriatePosted on 06/18/09, 02:35pm
Am I so over-saturated by playing almost every single game in the last couple years that nothing new is looking good? I have only downloaded ONE game in the last couple weeks, and that was based more on loyalty than excitement. And for that matter, I haven't even played all the trial off of it yet (Dream Day Las Vegas).
I'm starting to feel awful jaded. HOG games are okay; there are a few that I absolutely treasure such as RTR. Quite frankly, the majority of them all are so alike that I can't even recall the names of the last few I've played. They've also seemed to turn alarmingly toward kindergarten levels--if you take more than a second to click on an object, it will start to do anything from glitter to throb. I may love a genre classified as casual games, but that doesn't mean I don't want to think or be challenged!
Then there are the point & click adventures, which used to really make me happy, but lately again I'm finding it hard to remember the names of any one individual game in the last few months.
And Diner Dash? Ugh. I used to be charmed and would joke about how I still have nightmares about my first job, which was waitressing, and yet I was utterly distracted by this quirky little game that emulates that... but now, I swear if I see one more Diner Dash installment, I may just throw up. It is so over-done! And if the OFFICIAL Diner Dashes weren't enough, there are clones galore. Cake Mania briefly earned my love, and now it's another one that I look on with a little annoyance too.
There have been a few great ones recently--Wandering Willows perhaps may lead into a new generation that crosses point/click adventures with the fun of basically building up a sim style life with an apparently neverending story with no definite, pressing goals. Plants Vs. Zombies may show developers what they should have seen with Garden Defense and Monster Mash, that tower defense games are another woefully ignored genre, thus far buried under the brain draining rashes of Flo and her never ending string of restaurant friends.
So what would I like to see? Here's a short list of my own wishes--
1. PLEASE more games like Wandering Willows rather than any more restaurant/building/fashion time management clones.
2. More tower defense games, please.
3. In HOG, it's time to stop trying to treat casual gamers like they only play casually because they don't have the smarts that "hardcore" gamers do. I'm sure that most casual gamers are like me, and turned to casual games because of the ease of obtaining the games, not because we want to stop thinking! More games like RTR and far fewer games like Cate West, Samatha Swift, & Laura Jones. Yes, they all have their fans, but I suspect that more games in the level of quality that RTR would have much more universal appeal.
4. Isn't it time that SOMETHING was done with word games? Please don't let's leave it to Bookworm and Scrabble clones! Let's come up with SOMETHING that is word/language centric. I know it's not as popular as HOG, but perhaps that's becuase we've not been truly given anything to hold our attention. Surely at least we should be able to look forward to one decent word game a year?
5. Please, STOP MAKING IDENTICAL CLONES OF ANY GAME. The above examples are not given because I hope to see "Wandering Willows 2--Granny is being taken over by land hungry aliens and needs your help to do the exact same thing that you did in the first game!" They are given to prove that developers should not be scared of doing something not yet done. Wandering Willows is enjoying far more sales and making new fans every day than the same tired Virtual Villagers clone, or Diner Dash spawn, or latest HOG poorly crafted wannabe.
So far, I've been a major supporter of casual games with time, money, and word of mouth. However, in the last few weeks I simply cannot find any game that is worth receiving any of those resources!
Sorry for a long rant... lol I'm twiddling my thumbs lately and want to find new games to play with that don't seem like a waste of my time.
~SM
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